Jason Hartman finishes the first day of Meet the Masters and gives us a rundown of the speakers and discussions they had. He looks at mortgage increases and statistics on homeownership rates. Later he introduces Pat Donohoe’s human capital statement and then he dives into insights on lending practices. He gets us excited for the next day of Meet the Masters.
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it. And now here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.
Jason Hartman 0:52
Welcome to meet the Masters 2018. We’re glad to have you here. This is your Friday wrap up
Jason Hartman 1:03
This chart is hugely significant why it is what’s called a mortgage sensitivity chart. This chart basically shows you how many people get knocked out of the market. How many people get knocked out of the market based on the interest rate. This is major. Now, the Fed has stated publicly This is not the same kind of fed, we had Federal Reserve under Alan Greenspan that was really opaque and Greenspan talked in code and, you know, you have to understand hieroglyphics and Farsi and like Russian and every other language on earth to understand and interpret Alan Greenspan. Okay. This Fed is not like that. All right. And this Fed has said that they are going to raise rates at least, at least three times this year, maybe four, and then next year in 2019. They’re going to raise rates two more times. Because they believe the economy is heating up too much. Okay, so what happened now the Fed doesn’t directly control mortgage rates, okay, but they definitely influence them. So look at what happens here. And let me just look over here. Okay, well, sorry.
Jason Hartman 2:19
Look what happens here when you have a $200,000 mortgage, okay, a decent number to consider a first time buyer mortgage, and these rates go up. Okay, so if interest rates move higher millions of potential single family home buyers will be unable to qualify for a mortgage loan based on their current income and they will likely rent burns expects rates to hit 4.9%. Now I know a lot of you are thinking well, that’s not that much higher than I already pay. It is because homeowner rates, owner occupant rates are much lower than investor rates, okay, as investors we have to pay a premium for those mortgages. We all know that. So this is the sliding scale of how the homeownership rate just slides down. when interest rates go up. You know, I’ve taught you all about the three, what I call the three dimensions of real estate. And the beautiful thing about real estate is you get to negotiate the deal all along the life of the investment, right? You get to renegotiate it constantly. You buy it, and you buy that deal based on one thing in one scenario, and the way that Performa looks today. But then, three years later, if interest rates are higher, you’re renegotiating the deal. Why are you renegotiating the deal? Because there’s a lot of upward pressure on rents. And when that upward pressure on rents happens, you get to adjust your strategy, okay? And maybe that decline in homeownership softens the market, and people can’t afford to buy and so prices soften fine, who cares? We invest for yield, not capital gains. If capital gains come, I can spend it as well as the next guy. It’s great. Okay, but it’s the icing on Cake. It’s not the cake. The cake is the yield. Okay, that’s what produces the return on investment. So either way you win as long as you understand how to keep score. You know how to do the math of investing. We’ll go into that more this weekend, of course, and we’ve done a lot in the past and on the podcast, and you adjust your strategy. when interest rates are high, do not be afraid. When you see that homeownership rate declining, do not be afraid to really put upward pressure on your rents. And one tip that I again shared recently, by the way, where’s Coco? Coco? Yeah. Is that you know, I love animals. I’ve always had this love for free little creatures. They’re great. Right? Okay. And, you know, but I’ve never seen one enhance the value of a property, okay, for the owner, the investment property. So another way you can raise your rates is by simply charging pet rent. Okay, you’d make If you don’t raise the face rental amount, or maybe you do raise that maybe the rents $1,000 a month and you raise it to 1040. But then you add 25 bucks a month pet rent, all the institutional landlords charge pet rent, why aren’t single family home owners doing that? Okay, this should be the norm not the exception. It should be the normal thing. Okay. So, you know, people are usually more than happy to pay for their pets. So, so that’s another thing to think about. You can raise your rates in more than one in more than one way. All right.
Guest Speaker 5:43
Alright, so we’ve got Dave, he’s going to talk about Quad City properties.
Guest Speaker 5:47
The question was demographics in the Quad Cities. So again, it’s 70% homeownership 30% rental, which is different, you know, as you guys know, most rental markets, it’s almost flipped, maybe 6040. So it’s a lot of blue collar. I mean, again, you’ve got large colleges, you’ve got a lot of hospitals. You’ve got a lot of these construction jobs. riverboat gambling actually started in the Quad City. So they just built a billion dollar casino over there. This new bridge they’re putting in again, I think it’s 4000 jobs at prevailing wage. But you’re then you have the high end you have people actually do commute from Chicago. So you have at the north side, Bettendorf is the one city that’s kind of that the nicest spot, you got 400 $500,000 new construction as far as the eye can see. So it’s driving that economy. Certainly, you know, with john deere, you know, Iowa, it’s kind of that hometown. So it’s blue collar. I mean, it’s the definition of blue collar, our tenants are nurses, mechanics, just blue collar folks that don’t fit the urban core demographic. We require in the Quad Cities three and a half times rent, which is almost unheard of, for many property manager, right. We require a I think it’s a 600 credit score. Obviously, we do a background check that cavity felonies our banks tell us these people could be buying houses and they could
Guest Speaker 7:07
rent that’s three times income,
Guest Speaker 7:08
right? Yes. So if you know rents 1000 they have to have 3500. And that’s unusual. Most property managers I think are two and a half, maybe 330 500 in
Guest Speaker 7:18
Guest Speaker 7:20
rent to be able to rent that. So that’s, that’s the demographic.
Guest Speaker 7:36
Just hear more from our friend Pat Dano
Guest Speaker 7:39
Prussian system also influenced our Social Security system and the nature of retirement Prussian system. The objective was to get old people who are physically incapable of providing value out of the way. So younger, more agile, they can lift more rocks, that they could take their place. That was the foundation of retirement. Now the reason why I say this is because in my, in my experience, I’ve had the privilege of meeting thousands of people. And and this is the common behavior that I see, which is it’s very difficult for people to critically think it’s easy for them to be recipients of advice and be told what to do and subsequently do it. Also, I look at retirement and I’ve seen a lot of people exit the rat race, but they forget that there is a fast track and because of that, this financial freedom is not really freedom at all. It’s moving from one jail cell to another maybe with a 10 minute recess. Okay, the nature of I would say us as human beings, okay isn’t to become financially free and stop. We are wired to provide value to others that’s the nature of income. The idea behind cash flow one on one if you really dig into the books and dig into the philosophy, it’s not to exit the rat race. If that was the objective then they would not have put that second layer on top of it. Okay, so how do you how do you do that? When I learned this, it changed everything changed everything it changed my business it changed my life It changed my relationships helped me get over just a lot of my you know, insecurities and and totally revolution my my family’s life as well. I might use my use this board for a second. So this is a human being go back. This is a human capital human capital statement. So what’s a sole financial statement? Most of you guys in here who’ve played cashflow want to want especially know what a financial statement is, right? So you have you have income and then you Have expenses and then your balance sheet you have assets and liabilities. So income. How do you define income money that you get paid, right? expenses, money, you pay others assets, what’s a true asset? puts money in your pocket. That’s the you know, typical Rich Dad definition. Okay? But an asset is something that has value that you can sell and receive something else in return. And then a liability, right is something that you owe to others. Okay, pretty simple. Is everyone following me with just a simple financial statement? Okay, because it’s really important to understand this if you’re going to understand the human capital statement. Now, the human capital statement is what I call the mirror. And it’s a mirror because you can look at income in a completely different way. And what that means is income. It’s money that you’re paid, but it’s also value that you create
Guest Speaker 11:02
liabilities or I’m sorry, expenses is money, you pay others but it’s also money that you pay to others for them to do a service for you. Okay, an asset, right is your ability to put money in your pocket based on who you are your experience, your training your expertise. For Tim, it was his experience as a copywriter his experience in being able to run a business of his experience and understanding financial concepts, which he built as one of his human capital assets, which allowed him to take that become a freelancer and provide value based on that experience. Okay, and then a liability is the expertise of others. This is hard and I might, Jason might not like when I say this. Well, I think the most expensive property manager in the This room, okay, is Jason Hartman because Jason Hartman doesn’t do all he doesn’t hire a property manager. He does it himself does himself. But Jason, as you guys all know, is one of the most gifted people I know, talented, has a ton of wisdom. And he’s exchanging his time to call attendance and deal with problems. Okay, so that is a liability. Right? That is a liability. I would, I would argue, but there are others that have those businesses that have those expertise, that it’s totally worth paying, so that you can focus on your highest and best use of time and talents. Okay, so the human capital, human capital statement, I would say this is essentially how you discover your dream. You get out of the rat race. But I think at the same time, you can also build your human capital statement and I think you can get out of the rat race sooner. I think you’re gonna accomplish and achieve your dreams. even sooner.
Guest Speaker 13:11
All right, lender panel Come on up.
Guest Speaker 13:13
My name is Julia M. Spencer. I’m a real estate investor. I’m based out in Savannah, Georgia question that I always get. And I’ve been in real estate investing for decades, long time now. And the question I always get from a lot of my listeners and my subscribers is back, want to save me like 10 years ago, maybe 15 years ago. And this is also how I started is I started getting loans with zero percent down for investment properties, and I’ve gotten a lot of those. And that’s kind of how I got started, do these loans still exist these days? Because I get that question a lot. Not just zero down but also putting the closing costs into the loan. Does that even still exist these days?
Guest Speaker 13:56
simple answer is no
Guest Speaker 13:59
complicated. answer is, is the money we use, in most cases belongs to somebody else. So if I went to you and say, Hey, how about you put up 100% of the capital to get this person’s business up off the ground. And but you don’t get any of the cash flow just gonna pay you say 5% of your hundred percent in 12 installments every year and you get to use Leave him alone, as long as you’re paying, would that be a good deal for you? Probably not. Even at this point, right now we can do as little as 15% down and somebody else will put up the capital for you. And it’s, it can be a pension fund. So these pension is paying for this. A lot of times I know CalPERS puts a lot of money into these, these these pools. So they are saying, hey, if we’re going to put our money up for this, and we just went through a crash, and we know that this is a cyclical thing, and now we’re already another 10 years into that cycle. We want to have a little bit of skin in that game to protect us from losing on that site, because we’re gonna put up 80% or 85% of the capital for your business. It’s just to help them out and that’s what keeps the money flowing. When back to zero percent. I don’t know that we get much money to work with anymore.
Guest Speaker 15:00
Good answer. So my next question and we’ll wait a sec one
Guest Speaker 15:03
thing I do want to say about that. If you talk to Patrick and Gary about the using the insurance as a component,
Guest Speaker 15:12
it gets more interesting.
Guest Speaker 15:13
I just want to encourage you to talk to them about that.
Guest Speaker 15:15
So my next question would be, then what is then the lowest amount that people can expect to pay as a downpayment because we see 25%, sometimes we see 10%, sometimes we see 5%. And there’s still this thing floating around of the 20% 80% financing thing that some people gotten into a couple years ago.
Guest Speaker 15:35
So just to add to that, I guess, specifically, specifically to investment properties. So Freddie Mac will allow you to do 15% down with mortgage insurance. So that’s pretty much the minimum for a single family home investment property. The rate on it might be a little bit elevated over and above, maybe you’re 20% down with no EMI and again, we’re 25% down you see just a better interest rate with that too. Down Payment as opposed to 20 or maybe 15. But to answer the question 15% out would be the minimum for what we’re discussing.
Guest Speaker 16:08
So now from California, so in a situation where you have a spouse with no income, would you would you agree that the first 10 loans should be in one person’s name?
Guest Speaker 16:26
And then what happens at
Guest Speaker 16:28
10? Is there a way to get your spouse who doesn’t
Guest Speaker 16:31
have a W two?
Guest Speaker 16:33
No, I think you have to get a new spouse with income.
Guest Speaker 16:38
That was my answer.
Guest Speaker 16:42
She worked make
Guest Speaker 16:42
that one go to work.
Guest Speaker 16:45
I’d like to point out something with regard to that quote, it’s a great question with regard to you know, some of the strategies that you guys employ with one spouse, maybe maxing out their 10 finance tomes and then trying to have another spouse financed properties as well. Clearly, as Jason mentioned, both spouses need to be employed for us to qualify for the mortgages. But as it relates to source of funds and downpayment for each individual spouse, while the funds may come from a joint account, those funds do need to be seasoned in that account for one spouse to use and have access to those funds for downpayment and how long do they need to season three months, typically two months, 60 days? But for so in that question, it’s like if Matt you liquidated money from your 401k and put it into your joint account for your wife to use, that money would need to be seasoned because a spouse spouse cannot get a gift is not allowed for financing on an investment property. So that money that you would liquidate would be regarded as a spousal gift and therefore needs to be seasoned before we could document that money for your spouse to go ahead and acquire the property.
Guest Speaker 17:55
On the seasoning thing real quick here. The reason we go about the 60 day seasoning because we have to look at A 60 day window, right? Everybody says you got a season in 60 days, it’s really slightly longer than that. Because if I’m looking at two statement periods, and I’m seeing a deposit in there, we have to ask about it. But if it’s before those two statement periods that we’re looking at, we don’t have to ask cuz we don’t know. That’s kind of how the whole seasoning thing really works. Then one scenario you’re asking with the that I’ve actually several times I’ve seen this throughout my career is an individual buys 10 finance properties or Holly’s buying these properties. Let’s say he forms his LLC to manage his properties. This is where the property manager sent him the money for his for his rents. And then when he filtered into his company, he hired his wife as his sole employee who would deposit those checks. Then his wife would write the checks to pay the payments. And as the sole employee of his company now had received a W two, receiving somewhere in the range of about $15,000 a year. not sexy, not a lot of money, but she was not they don’t have any debt. She had two credit cards, about $25 a month payment on each one because she was just buying growth. isn’t paying it off. So
Guest Speaker 19:00
the basic idea is you can hire relatives,
Guest Speaker 19:03
ultimately, that’s what ended up happening the scenario and she ended up buying 10 by 10 is all done, this particular couple has 43 properties. So there’s ways to do everything. You just got to sit down with the right people to engineer and work with you on it, not just dial in the bank and say I want a loan.
Guest Speaker 19:17
Shannon, did you have a comment? Okay,
Guest Speaker 19:19
so I have a program for you. It’s, we talked about it on the podcasts that I did with Jason and it’s called the investor cash flow loan, and it’s specifically perfect for your wife. They look at the property and not her income. So as long as the property cash flows, then they will finance that property. This particular lender only needs seasoning of 30 days of assets. So as long as the money is moved to an account that has her name on it for 30 days, then that’s fine.
Guest Speaker 19:50
That’s that’s pretty great.
Guest Speaker 19:51
One thing also, and I’m, I have a feeling this is gonna work just fine. But if that non working spouse has invested income or alimony, for example, you know that would qualify, right? Yeah.
Guest Speaker 20:17
Hi, I’m Scott from Washington, DC. Florida has to be the weirdest insurance market I’ve ever seen. How do you help people get insurance for these kinds of homes,
Guest Speaker 20:27
we just have a really good insurance broker. And I hear that a lot. But remember, each area of Florida is ranked differently. So we don’t buy we buy at least five miles inland. So that takes a whole risk factor off we don’t buy in flood zones. That takes a whole factor off. We don’t i don’t carry hurricane insurance like our insurance agent will call it I carry a different type of insurance that should cover your landlord in when needs. So it hasn’t been there’s a big difference between getting insurance in Jacksonville, Florida. Then there is an Miami. So our houses on average of the the old construction probably about $60 a month and about the same for the new construction. So it’s it’s not as big a deal as as you would think. The question was were any of the properties in Jacksonville affected? So our new construction, zero damage, the only damage that I had was on a few of the barrier islands where I own some personal property and vacation rental property. But that’s it. We buy at least five miles inland in Ocala was untouched in that last hurricane.
Guest Speaker 21:45
So while Memphis Memphis is a perennial market for investors, many of you own homes and properties in Memphis. And I think it’s because we’re so predictable and it comes from our workforce. You know, I’ll help investors buy renovate and make Great properties, but my passion is providing quality, clean, safe homes for the workforce. And what makes up our workforce is that we’re a logistics town. We ship everything out of Memphis. So we’re an arrow propolis which means we have the world’s largest Air Cargo hub with FedEx. We have two major interstates systems 40 that goes east to west from coast to coast across America coming straight through Memphis and interstate 55. from Chicago to New Orleans going north to south rail. We have five of the seven class one railroads in the in the nation. They come right to Memphis and then lastly the Mississippi River. So we have two inland ports where goods are brought up the Mississippi River and dropped off in Memphis and this is the new interstate 69. It’s called the NAFTA superhighway which has been built from Canada to Mexico. coming straight through Memphis. This is Nikes 3.8 million square foot facility. And we don’t make any Nike gear in Memphis but we ship all of it. So every shoe every piece of apparel, all the bags and equipment come out in this building. So they’re made offshore, brought to Memphis and from Memphis shipped in North America. And earlier I mentioned St. Jude. So this is the jewel of Memphis. They’re saving babies from pediatric cancer. Wow, what an amazing place. But they’re a huge employer. And right now they’re investing $9 billion, seven, and two $9 billion into the city of Memphis that’s bringing a lot of jobs is bringing a lot of investors into town to provide housing for the people that are going to work there.
Guest Speaker 23:43
Here’s some of our major employers, and
Guest Speaker 23:47
the ones based in Memphis International Paper, FedEx, St. Jude AutoZone. All those aren’t real high paying jobs is workforce jobs. So this is a map of Memphis and I’ve got more copies. In the back, if you guys want to stop by the booth and go over this, I’d love to break down the different areas that we buy in. Today I’d like to focus on three different areas. So I had a practice out in the hallway with some of the guys. Raleigh springs. This is where the new Nike factory that I just showed you a picture so Raleigh Springs is a great rental market for year after year after year. The closer you are to the east in Raleigh, the higher end is if you jump over their lawn into Bartlett, you’re in a neighborhood B neighborhood c neighborhood as you get over here to Nike. And then a lot of people know this is a no go zone. So we don’t bother. Then we have White Haven now a lot of people know White Haven because that’s where Elvis lived Graceland. Has anybody been to Graceland? You can admit it. Alright. So Elvis’s neighborhood Graceland. Our White Haven is a great area for us. Matter of fact, we’re building brand new homes there right now. So I’ll show you more about that. And then We have Hickory Hill. So Hickory Hill, you can see it’s flanked by the world’s largest Air Cargo hub with FedEx, and then FedEx corporate to the east. So FedEx corporate is eight six storey buildings where the executives work for FedEx. FedEx employs 35,000 people in Memphis. So it’s, it’s a big deal to be in between the two largest employers for FedEx here. And it’s just north of Warren Buffett’s new intermodal unit where the trains bring in and cargo containers and offload them, put them on a truck and send them out to America $280 million intermodal unit built by Warren Buffett right here. So you can imagine Hickory Hill is a very good market for us. We mined all of our data, and this is every property that we’ve bought and sold there in the past 18 months. So if we were to dig into a certain area on here, I can tell you what every house what it sold for what it rented for and this is where we get what we call our target rents. So we don’t go to to a third party source, we have an internal database where we know exactly what it’s going to rent for, before we buy it.
Guest Speaker 26:13
So three questions to ask your turnkey partner, do you own properties in the markets that the operate in and how long you’ve been operating? I think that’s really important. If you’re going to somebody and and when to buy property, they didn’t own anything. And they really don’t have any skin in the game in the market too. So and how long they’ve been in that market. Because everybody here one of the things they said, was inventory, everybody’s having inventory problems. If you’re still in the business, then you you’re running a good business, you have a big demand for what you have, but you don’t have enough inventory for your clients. Everybody’s going through these different markets. So another one got here from Kansas City, and I’m sorry if he’s in here and I forgot your name. But he has he had a team that’s been doing it for a long time. That’s what you want to see. But if there’s been a couple people follow us in the little rock that have no experience whatsoever, and they’re going to struggle and their clients are going to struggle because While the cities are similar, the markets are different. Not everyone, you there’s not a cookie cutter approach that you open up the book and says what I do in Memphis is going to work in Chicago. So, the other thing you want to ask your turnkey provider is, how much is your typical rehab cost because some of these turnkey providers, they say they’re turnkey, and they’re putting in 1015 grand. I think James said something about 25 grand what they put in ours, that’s the minimum if you’re putting in a roof and air conditioner, and a furnace is $25,000. If you’re putting anything less than you’re gonna have deferred maintenance. Down the road, you’re gonna have cashflow problems. So cutting corners will would certainly cost you spend money on the front end to make money on the back end. And then you provide in house management. I think that’s critical. Because once we sell a property, it’s not like See you later. hope it works well for you. There’s a connection back to it. If something goes wrong, they could come to me you’re married to it’s you’re developing a relationship and that’s what we’re doing is developing relationships with our clients. And that’s, you know why we see so many people here. That’s what we love coming here. We’ve developed great relationships with our clients.
Guest Speaker 28:11
When you break down homeownership rates, everybody asked about the millennials, the 35 and under is actually taking up but it’s still the furthest below its pre recession peak and homeownership rate. So the millennials are not buying homes as quickly as they used to. But they are starting to come back a little bit. And we actually did a fun study. I didn’t have time to pull it for this presentation. But if you look at we looked in our data at the top names of homebuyers in 2017, compared to 2016, what were their first names that saw the biggest increase in purchases of property? Does anybody have a guess on what the most popular first name was for buying property in terms of increase in purchasing? I’ll give you a hand. It’s a millennial name.
Guest Speaker 29:01
Anybody ever guess? What that? Oh,
Guest Speaker 29:07
it was Dylan. So and we looked, you know, if you go to babycenter.org, Dylan was spiked in popularity, right about 1992. So those people if I’m doing my math right are about 25 years old. We are seeing a spike in people with the first name of Dylan. And the other ones on the list are Lindsay, Austin, Alexandra, and Taylor. Okay, so and they’ll all those names spiked in popularity as baby names back in the 1990s. So we are seeing some evidence Millennials are coming back. You can look that up if you want to see that that report. Just Google top homebuyer names in 2017. What’s interesting to me and maybe this is because I’m in this age group, is that the so called Have you guys heard the term Boomerang buyers anybody heard that? People who lost their homes during the foreclosure crisis, there was some expectation that eventually they would come back and become homeowners. Again, we’re actually really not seeing that as but if you look at the generation of Gen Xers, they’re the only generation when you look at the census data, where the homeownership rate is continuing to fall, it’s not bouncing back at all. And it’s now you know, at a new low, and so that’s interesting. Those Boomerang buyers are basically at this point, they’re probably choosing to stay renters because there’s probably been seven years that have passed, they can get that some of that stuff off their credit history and become homeowners. So the the market is ripe. This is for landlords like you get yourselves. And one of the things that we noticed in our data this is our data now is the homeownership tenure is has almost doubled, and there’s a clear inflection point. And that’s, that starts in the fourth quarter of 2008. And of course, we know what happened in the fourth quarter of 2008 people started staying in their home, have some Started staying in their homes for longer. Part of that is forced because they didn’t have the equity to sell. But part of it is there’s lack of inventory. And so and then part of it is that investors are buying homes and investors tend to to keep the homes longer than owner occupants who move up. And so this is another sign that we’re in a market that’s different than the last housing boom, it is disproportionately driven by investors. We’re seeing another sign of that in our data is 28. In the last year 28% of single family home purchases went to non owner occupied buyers, that’s been progressively getting higher and higher homes purchased 10 to 15 years ago, only 25% of them are non owner occupied 15 to you know, it goes down from there. So again, belaboring that point. We do want to point out though, that it differs from Market to Market and markets are behaving a little bit differently. Places like Memphis, which is on here, which is the top line and it was just talked about. We see over 50% of single family home purchases there are non owner occupied. And that’s been trending up. Places like Birmingham, Alabama, Cleveland, Ohio are all trending up more non owner occupied purchases. Whereas a place like Atlanta, it’s interesting, we actually have seen that did go up in the wake of the Great Recession, but we’re seeing it come down and that is shifting back a little bit more toward a more owner occupied market in Atlanta. And this is something to be aware of as you’re buying, you know, in my mind, you could be getting into some dangerous dangerous territory if you’re buying in an area that is very, very saturated with other investors. So that’s my take on that.
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