Demographics and Real Estate Migration Patterns

Jason Hartman starts the show with Brian, his tech specialist at Hartman Media. They talk about the preparation of the first virtual Meet the Masters. In the interview segment of the show, he hosts Brian Adams, Founder of Excelsior Capital. The two have a discussion on the millenial group moving into the suburbs and changes in the post-pandemic world. They discuss public transportation downward trend and why they believe cars will gain popularity in the coming years.

Announcer 0:02
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multimillionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Jason Hartman 0:54
Welcome to Episode 1516 1516. Today, our guests will be None other than Bryan Adams. No, not the singer, not the summer of 69. Remember last week, I told you about the inflation rates since the summer of 69. But know this Bryan Adams manages a commercial real estate fund. And he was just a fantastic guest. We did a great interview, talking about demographics, economics, different segments of real estate, commercial residential. I think you’ll really like this. And it was a fairly long interview. So we will do part one today and part two tomorrow. And today, though, we have another Brian. And that is one of our team members, a very valuable team member that’s been with us for just a few months now. And he is on the show for his very first time, Brian, welcome. How are you?

Brian 1:55
I’m great. How are you doing Jason?

Jason Hartman 1:57
Good. We’ve got like Brian squared today, don’t we?

Brian 2:00
On Sunday, you can always use another Brian

Jason Hartman 2:02
to Brian’s are better than one.

Brian 2:04
Yes, I believe so.

Jason Hartman 2:05
Yes, yes. But he The reason we have Brian here today is that I asked him and he graciously agreed to be our tech support concierge for upcoming meet the Masters event which is starts on Friday, and goes Friday evening, all day, Saturday and Sunday. And if you have any help you need with zoom, or the social network that we’re going to be talking about, or anything like that, you will receive an email and a text message with his email address and phone number. So you can just reach out directly and no need to panic getting online. We want to make this as smooth and easy as possible for you. And Brian, what should we go over First, let’s tell them about the exciting social network. I think that’s pretty cool. So first, yeah, first Yeah.

Brian 2:59
We develop this new social network, we want to do something kind of interesting and different to be able to showcase what we do give a great place for people to interact and network and interact. So I’m pretty excited about it. I know we’ve been working on it for quite some time. And so yeah, with meet the Masters, we’re going to be revealing it for the very first time.

Jason Hartman 3:21
Yeah. And so what this will be is being doing in a virtual event, it’s obviously different than a physical event, but we want to try and bridge any gaps that are not available in a virtual event. So one of them is networking, you know, you don’t get to see people in person, you don’t get to shake hands with them. And you might miss some of the small talk and, and just sort of the little things that come up with an in person event. So what Brian has been really working on and I just can’t wait till everybody gets in there and and starts using it is a social network. Where everybody will be invited look for an email, or actually, you’ll probably get two emails on that one from us, and another from the system itself. And you’ll get invited to this, you can go in, and our speakers will be posting content in there. Our local market specialists will be posting properties in there. And you can post questions in there. And we will put a be putting poll results in there, because we’ll be taking some polls throughout the event. All kinds of good stuff like that. What else we want people to know about that, Brian,

Brian 4:34
actually, the event information will be there as well. And so if you get lost or forget where it’s at, you just have to log in. Also, the network is available on mobile too. So you can log in on your mobile phone as well in case you want to watch it on your mobile phone or interact while you’re on your mobile phone. That’s definitely available too.

Jason Hartman 4:52
Yeah, good stuff. And oh, so let’s just go over the hours again, and the fact that we are actually going To for another first for us, we’re going to have two stages at this event or two rooms. Always before for our events, we just had one big room. But this time we will have two and we will be having some breakout session opportunities and and when the room isn’t being used, the second room isn’t being used as a for an actual breakout session of presentation. It’ll be kind of a lounge area and a little networking area. So people can go in there and do informal things and stuff like that. But so both links to these different rooms will be available in the social network. And let’s go over the hours again. So if you you know, it’s impossible, Brian isn’t impossible when you have people around the world. You just can’t make the hours work for everybody. Can you?

Brian 5:49
That’s true. That’s true. No, we’re on a different time zone ourselves.

Jason Hartman 5:53
Yeah, you’re in Pacific time. I’m on Eastern time. We have people attending from Europe, Australia, Asia. They’re all on different time zones too. So we get it, folks. But look, if it was like our typical event where you’re flying in, you would be jet lagged. And you don’t have to go through all that. So you just have to, you know, make it a slumber party and stay up for us. I actually interviewed someone for the podcast yesterday, and he was in the Philippines and it was like midnight where he was, we still did a great show. So that’s the thing, but the hours again, just to reiterate, you can find this all at Jason slash masters, but the hours are Friday evening and I’ll just do them in Eastern time. My timezone 7pm. Eastern. Then on Saturday and Sunday, we start at 11am Eastern time. So if you’re in the pacific time, that’ll be Friday afternoon at four o’clock, we’ll start for you. And Saturday and Sunday morning at 8am. So bring your coffee or tea for that and we’ll get a start by Normally for you, and on the East Coast, you’ll just be a little bit into the event, you’ll be ready for lunch. So it’s, it’s really easy. It’s really easy. But I think the important thing to know is two links for two rooms will be shared in the social network. And we just wanted to tell you that and you know, give you a little detail. Brian, you’re also going to be sending out emails and text message, right?

Brian 7:25
Correct. Correct. So we will have email going out outlining all this again, what we’re talking about now. And then you’ll get an email for adding becoming part of the new social network we talked about. And then we’ll have updates on Windows Start and texts as well, to let you guys know where we’re at. And each each day,

Jason Hartman 7:45
good stuff and what presentations are coming up and stuff like that. And I’ll just give you a rough outline of the schedule, by the way. So Friday evening, we’re going to start with a welcome and by the way, please bring a drink. Like an adult beverage, you know, beer wine, bring a cocktail, I’d say you should make a cash flow cocktail, because that’s what the event is about. And that’s what we’ll start with on Friday afternoon or evening. You know, as the saying goes, it’s it’s five o’clock somewhere. And I think that definitely applies to a virtual event that spans time zones. And then we will have Sharon lechter. Sort of kicking us off on Friday, she’ll be talking about the Napoleon Hill book that she wrote in concert with the Napoleon Hill foundation. It’s just excellent outwitting the devil, and she’ll kicks off for that. And we’ll go for about two hours on Friday. And then Saturday morning, we’ll be kicking off with Harry dent, the renowned economist will have my presentation after Harry dent, we will have several market profile presentations. And those are pretty short and snappy, by the way, because you can network with the local market specialists inside the social network and get more informed There, and then some of them will probably jump into the breakout room. And you can meet them in there as well. And then we will close out Saturday with George gammon and George gammon. We’ll be talking about the consumer price index and what it really means to you. And then Sunday morning, we’ll be kicking it off with Ken McElroy. Renowned investor, Rich Dad author, as Sharon lechter, as well. And then we’ve got a bunch of other stuff on Sunday, just a bunch of great content. And I believe we will be also ending up Sunday with George gammon as our last guest speaker for Sunday. He’s speaking two times. So that’ll really be neat. We’re doing kind of a follow on session with George so I think it’ll be a be a lot of fun. And I don’t know, Did I miss anything else? I probably I’m sure I missed some things there, folks. But that’s the basic idea.

Brian 9:53
Now it looks great. I think there’s there’s a lot happening. I mean, we we have a really packed schedule. So I think it’s gonna mean a minute. event.

Jason Hartman 10:00
Yeah, I think it’s gonna be a lot of fun. And, and Brian, you know, thank you for all your help. I am super excited. The first time is the hardest. It is a virtual event, you know, I’m sure, I’m sure it will go perfectly. But the nice thing is we have an emcee. And that is Sean Carroll, our client actually is he’s a professional MC. So it’s the first time we have that. And I think that’ll make my job a little easier. So I can focus on content and what I do, so that’ll be good. And he’ll be emceeing the event. You know, there’s a lot of stuff you can do with a virtual events that you can’t do with a live event. And so I’m really excited about some of that stuff as well. But But anyway, we’ve got our guests today, and we’re going to talk about all the stuff I mentioned before, but before we get to that I just wanted to share with you and and Brian, I don’t know if you know this years ago, I found this out but one of the really good source of data for real estate training In moving trends is actually the truck rental company u haul. Because think about it u haul. You know, they know where people are picking up trucks and where they’re dropping them off. And that tells you a lot about what’s going on with migration trends, doesn’t it? And so I thought I’d share this survey, they do a lot of surveys and release a lot of data that’s quite interesting. And this is an article from January 6 of this year. So if you think about that in in COVID time, that seems like a long time ago, doesn’t it? Yeah, but it wasn’t that long ago. And it says that u haul names the top growth state of 2019. And I will reveal that in a moment. But it says that Texas, actually slipped from being the number one back To the number two spot for the Do It Yourself movers in Florida. Not much of a surprise based on the previous podcasts this year became number one. So the Sunshine State was the number one destination in 2019. It greeted the largest number of U haul moving trucks entering its borders versus exiting them. That’s an interesting thing. And those of you who’ve been following my work for you know, a while even if you were following me back in 2005 2004, I remember I used to do, there was a screenshot in my seminars that I would always share renting a u haul truck from Irvine, California, to Austin, Texas. I use that example. And I also used Irvine, California to Phoenix, Arizona, and I showed how much less expensive it was to bring that truck back to Kenya. fornia because you all was really struggling, that everybody would rent their trucks on a one way rental, and they leave them at their destination. So if you wanted to, and I just remember this example, you know roughly what it said. But if you wanted to rent a u haul truck to go from Irvine, California to Austin, Texas, for example, that was like $850 Okay, plus all the nickel and dime fees. But if you wanted to rent that truck and go the opposite direction, that’s what was really interesting. So if you go from Austin, Texas, Irvine, California now this was back then but I’m sure that concept holds true still. And you can just go to u hauls website and do this yourself. You don’t need me to tell you because you can price it right online. It was only like $170 if you could believe that for that really long distance. Okay, putting a lot of miles on the truck, but they they literally had to hide hire people to drive the trucks back, because there were so many leaving the state of California. And now we’re still seeing these kinds of trends. So to that point, the article says California ranked number 49. And remember, that’s out of 50. And, even worse, Illinois rated number 50. Okay, for the fourth time in five years, pacing the out immigration states with the largest net losses of U haul trucks crossing its borders. So people leaving those places and the growth states are calculated by the net gain. And so this really just goes to show you, you know, kind of gives you a feel as to what’s happening right. Also, here’s a little more micro data for you. Florida arrivals of one way u haul trucks increased 1% Well, departures from Florida were down 1% compared to the 2018 numbers now remember this is 2019 we’re talking about so year over year, small change, right? But arrivals accounted for 50.6% of all one way you hauled traffic in the state, okay? And Kissimmee, Ocala West Palm Beach not Hey, that’s not far from me. Port St. Lucie Bradenton Sarasota corridor lead Florida’s Gaines Boca Raton, Fort Lauderdale, Pensacola, Miami, St. Petersburg, are among the other notable cities that see a net increase of U haul trucks. And also this is interesting because we just and Brian, I remember you helped me upload this webinar. We did a webinar recently on Alabama and Alabama had the biggest eurovia your climb in the rankings of the U haul truck rental Serve for inbound migration. So, pretty interesting stuff. Pretty interesting stuff. You know, you have to kind of wade through this. And, you know, there’s a lot to it, but it does give you a feel for what’s going on. And that’s, that’s really all it’s designed to do. So good stuff. Shall we get to our guests? Brian? Sounds good. Let’s do it. Right. All right. Remember that link for meet the Masters is Jason, slash masters. And one more thing. We are live streaming this evening, talking about the history and the future of market bubbles. So join us at five o’clock Pacific, eight o’clock eastern tonight on Facebook, the Jason page on Facebook or the YouTube channel, and you can see us live stream and we’re going to be talking about bubbles past, present and future. So if you’re worried about a bubble or a market crash you Any asset class, we’re not just talking about real estate, we’re talking about all assets. Join us tonight for the live stream. And you know, we’ll have live q&a and you can get your questions answered there. Without further ado, here’s the other Bryan Bryan Adams. It’s my pleasure to welcome Brian Adams. He is the founder of Excelsior capital, and he is a student like I am of demographic trends and demographic cohorts, and also an operator and syndicator of office properties and I believe 12 markets around the United States. So he has some good insight into what’s going on in the office. property market. Brian, welcome. How are you? I’m great. Thank you for having it’s good to have you where you located. I’m in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m a native New Yorker, but I married a Nashville girl. I’ve been here 15 years now. Good deal. Well, Nashville is a great place and I bet you’re happier not in New York right now. Yeah, it’s a

Brian Adams 17:58
scary scene up there. It sure is. Sure as but

Jason Hartman 18:00
you know, that’s a good lead in to maybe just a broad conversation. I believe Brian, I was the first person to predict, at least you know, that I couldn’t confined that there would be this mass migration out of urban areas into suburban markets. It was really back when, you know, we were all hearing about Wu Han. And then we heard about Italy. That’s when I made that prediction. And then, you know, two, three months later, I started hearing it everywhere. It wasn’t rocket science, it’s kind of obvious, right? That density is dangerous in the current environment. What are your thoughts about that as, especially as you tie it in with demographics? And you study the millennial generation a lot. And I just, interestingly saw an article yesterday about how millennials have a new found interest in suburbia where, you know, the trend for decades has been, you know, back into the cities and now that we’re seeing that reverse, what are your thoughts?

Brian Adams 18:56
Yeah, it’s a great question that I think very topical, consider everything that’s happening taking a step back, millennials, roughly 75 million people total. I do barely qualify. I’m on the outer edge of it. But under the Pew and Gallup guidelines, I do qualify as a millennial. I think the narrative on Wall Street and in the media was that millennials were never going to get married, they were never going to have children. They were going to live in apartment buildings in Brooklyn and wear tight jeans and eat avocado toast and never leave. And the reality is because of 2008 and the Great Recession, their family formation was pushed back five plus years compared to other generations. And so now that they’ve entered into this maturing millennial phase of life, and they are having children, they are getting married and they’re making decisions about where they want to live, work and play, based on quality of life cost of living, and access single family homes and education for their child. Voltron and COVID like, you know, impacting other aspects of the world is really just accelerating a trend that we’ve been seeing where they’ve been relocating to suburban markets. I think we all can agree that over the last hundred plus years in America, pretty much every generation has rebelled against their parents way of life and lifestyle, but ultimately, has resumed that style of life and that quality of life just like their parents had. So my parents were of the 60s and the 70s. They felt they were never going to, you know, live in the suburbs and have kids and drive SUVs. Well, guess what? That’s exactly what happened. And so I think we’re seeing that play out in real time here. But COVID is certainly accelerating that transition. I think you’re seeing this mass migration. And if you look at the U haul numbers, it’s pretty staggering out of New York out of California, and part of that has to do with COVID, but also it was already

Jason Hartman 20:59
happening. It’s been happening a long time.

Brian Adams 21:01
Yes, been happening for a long time. And people have been, you know, tracking this. And unfortunately with those markets, the tax situation is only going to get worse. And you know, and it’s this pernicious death spiral of the tax basis leaving those markets, so they have to increase taxes and cut services to make up for it. Right. And you know, it’s just not going to end well. That being said, Do I think New York or San Francisco are, you know, going to go away? Certainly not. This will allow younger people to have a more affordable entry point into those markets, and then the cycle will continue. But I think for the next 10 1520 years, the play is in suburban secondary markets, growth markets, tax friendly and business friendly territories.

Jason Hartman 21:48
I couldn’t agree with you more. You know, years ago, I interviewed Meredith Whitney, who wrote a great book called The state of the states. I might be slightly have the title slightly wrong, but Generally, that’s the title. And you know, it just talked about how there’s been this mass migration for years out of the high tax, big government intrusive, mostly left leaning jurisdictions, to more business friendly, lower tax environments. And so that’s true. And now we see all these benefits that these areas offered, have just completely evaporated in the current environment. And, you know, we shouldn’t just talk about COVID we should talk about civil unrest, race riots, you know, all of this other stuff that’s going on. And there’s this crazy assumption, I think it’s just a very dangerous assumption that the whole world is making, that we’re going to have a vaccine. You know, maybe we’ll never have a vaccine, maybe it’ll take a long time. I mean, I was reading recently that vaccines take many, many years to come to market, because you have to put them into healthy people. It’s much easier to get approval and Understand that a pharmaceutical when you’re dealing with six sick people, but when you’re dealing with healthy people, it’s much more complicated. You know, I’m not an expert in this, but I was just reading about it.

Brian Adams 23:10
So that is I think that’s accurate. I’m lucky enough to have married into a family of healthcare practitioners, they all work at Vanderbilt Medical Center. My father in law is on the infectious disease pandemic committee at Vanderbilt for their response. And if you look back in history, on average, it takes four years soup to nuts to get a vaccine widely distributed. Now, the last time we did that, it was a while ago, so hopefully advancements in technology will speed that up. But I think it’s unrealistic to think that we can compress it from four years to six months. And so I agree with you, I think it’s very different between having a vaccine that is effective and distributing that vaccine on a global scale. Right. That will take a lot of time. And it will have a lot of logistical challenges and will require a lot of cooperation globally, which, unfortunately, the state of play right now in geopolitics is not really conducive to that kind of cooperation. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 24:11
yeah. No, it’s, that’s very true. But is it possible that there will never be a vaccine that we will simply have to reach herd immunity? And that’s the only hope to live like this forever? I mean, you know, maybe I will never be I mean, what is this sort of arrogant assumption everybody has that? humanity can solve every problem and there will be a vaccine. It just takes time. Right? Well, you know, maybe I don’t know. That’s

Brian Adams 24:37
it. I’m speaking way out of turn here because I’m just a real estate, right guy? Yeah. I think a more likely outcome is that on a seasonal basis, much like the typical flu that we have today, and touchdown, yeah, well know that we have a set of people that take a best guess on what the most virulent strain will be for that season. And then we will get vaccinated for that strain, but they’re not always going to get it right. So I think we’re going to be living with COVID for a long time. And just like the seasonal flu today, we’ll have opportunities to have it, effervesce, but I’m not sure we’ll ever truly go. Yeah.

Jason Hartman 25:16
Yeah. Interesting. Well, okay, so tell us more about the millennial trends in what is going on in the office space market. Because, you know, many of our listeners are residential investors. But this is all connected, obviously. So what are you seeing for the office property market?

Brian Adams 25:33
Yeah, taking a step back. COVID impacting on commercial real estate. I think of it. It’s really just a continuum. Obviously, hospitality and retail, travel leisure, are just getting crushed right now. multifamily, you’re starting to see that pain as the PPP wears off, and people are defaulting and not paying and you’ve got certain jurisdictions like we discussed, that are not allowing operators or sponsors to visit People and that’s only exacerbating the problem. offices probably somewhere in the middle, right? I mean, we’re not as insulated as data centers or cell towers, but we’re certainly doing better than hotels. So we run about two and a half million square feet total. It’s about $350 million portfolio in 12 markets. We’ve had about 92% rent collection month over month, which is about average, so we’ve been doing okay. But we certainly have had a lot of relief requests and trying to figure out if they’re legitimate or opportunistic, and then we have had some tenants have some real challenges, and so trying to work through that. But if you take a step back, I think given that most of this, most of these assets are cmbs related on the debt side.

Jason Hartman 26:48
That means commercial mortgage backed securities,

Brian Adams 26:50
correct. Yeah. So that is a complex financial market in and of itself, and it will take six plus months for that to really wash out So we won’t really have a good sense, I think until q1 of what the damage has been. I do think suburb and I’m biased. But I think suburban office is really well positioned. If you, if you look at the trend line over the last 10 years, it was towards really dense space, really expensive build outs, think of we work where sometimes it was as low as 75 square feet per user in those spaces, whereas the traditional office layout is 250 square feet per employee, you’ll see a return to more space, and more expensive, more affordable space. And another thing that you don’t hear a lot about is, you know, it’s rational to think that people don’t want to take mass transit to a high rise in New York, right. But if they’re relocating to a suburban market or a secondary market, there’s still quite a lot of density. And you usually have an asset that can park it and suburban offer office offers a really good parking ratio to take on that density.

Jason Hartman 28:00
Huh. So take that again about the transit,

Brian Adams 28:03
I think it’s reasonable to believe that affluent employees, knowledge based workers are not going to want to take. They’re not going to want to drive to a train, then get on a bus and then get on the subway to walk to their office building. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think it’s gonna be more car centric markets. Yeah. And, you know, pre COVID it was really a negative post COVID is a positive. Yeah, no,

Jason Hartman 28:28
it’s the environmentalist must be just really upset right now. Because this is not going to be this is not going to be what they want. They want mass transit, they want high density living, and everybody’s just doing the complete opposite. So, so it’s it’s very interesting. Well, the office space itself, though, you know, maybe the bright side here is that the office space itself within the Office suite has to be redesigned for more square footage per employee and wider Hall. weighs and all sorts of new concerns if people are going to come back to offices at all. There’s a new way they’ve got to do it. Right. We can’t, you know, certainly the CO working model is really out. because like you said, 75 square feet per person versus 250. What do you think about that? Is that a bright spot in your eyes?

Brian Adams 29:20
Yeah, I mean, I think you’ll actually see a Renaissance and coworking, but it will be a different model. I think you’ll see a return towards more of the old school conservative Regis type layout where you’re literally renting an office, and there will be shared amenities and shared common areas that just won’t really be used simultaneously. But I think the concept of benching hot desking hotelling, which are all these jargony Wall Streeters for jamming people into a small space, that certainly is going away.

Jason Hartman 29:52
Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree with you and I don’t think people are going to be working at coffee shops too much anymore either.

Brian Adams 29:59
You You know, when you see the headlines of Facebook and Twitter and some of these tech companies say, Oh, yeah, we’re gonna let people work from home forever. If you actually look at what they’re doing and read the press releases, it’s not that they’re letting people work from home, which is different than remote working, I think it’s important to draw that distinction. What they’re doing is transitioning to a hub and spoke model where you still have the mothership in Manhattan or the Bay Area, but they’re allowing a lot of their employees to work in, you know, support secondary markets in places like Nashville, Austin, Denver, etc. And I think you’ll see more and more of that.

Jason Hartman 30:34
So with that mothership and hub and spoke model and I have been reading about the hub and spoke model, How big does that mothership need to be though? That’s the thing, you know, it all changes in terms of the size requirement. So you know, maybe these flagship big companies that can afford it will still have the office in Manhattan or, you know, whatever, trophy city, but it’s going to be a lot smaller,

Brian Adams 30:58
right. Yeah. I mean, we’ve seen Real rent rates in Manhattan declined 20% since COVID. And so I think a lot of users and employers are going to rethink how much they spent on overhead on these type of markets. And I think to your point, there will be a need to have that trophy office in the trophy market, but it’s going to be a much smaller corpus of people that are using it.

Jason Hartman 31:25
Well, what else? Can you tell us? What else do you want us to know? You know, I assume the banks are very concerned about financing deals. I mean, are any new deals going on in the office market? Or is that just sort of asleep right now?

Brian Adams 31:38
That’s a great question. We actually closed the deal. In June, we bought property in Kansas City. On the Kansas side. We are originally supposed to close it the first week of April, clearly didn’t happen. We had to get a different lender. We had to backfill some equity. We really believe in the story there and we were excited to get it done. But it was a lot of work. And I think what you’re seeing right now Now real time in transactionally, is, you hear this term price discovery, which is this fancy way of saying buyers and sellers are not on the same page as the value on assets. And buyers want a discount? and sellers are saying, Well, my building is full. And so far everyone’s paid the rent. And then buyers are saying, Yeah, but can we really, you know, rely on that rent payment for the next three 612 months and the seller saying, well, that’s not my problem. And so that’s really the disconnect. transactionally. And then, I think more fundamentally, you know, the cmbs market for all extensive purposes is paused. And that’s a real problem. And bank lenders are trying to keep cash on their balance sheet for defaults on small businesses that they think are going to struggle in a recessionary period. And so it’s just very hard to get debt. I always say, a way to put is that the debt market is is really soft right now. Yeah. It’s hard to get deals done

Jason Hartman 33:01
that way. Right. So the market has largely frozen up in terms of financing is what you’re saying. Right?

Brian Adams 33:06
Yeah. I mean, I just in the office world, I don’t. I haven’t seen a lot of deals come across our desk and I haven’t heard of a lot of other sponsors or operators getting deals done. It seemed like most people press pause in q1, they put their toe back in the water, but everyone’s just very hesitant right now. Yeah,

Jason Hartman 33:25
I I agree. This will be continued on the next episode. Thank you for listening and happy investing. Thanks.

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